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Diagnosing The Workplace: Not Just An HR Podcast
Join James and Coby from Roman 3 as they diagnose issues and prescribe solutions to today's most important workplace challenges.
Diagnosing The Workplace: Not Just An HR Podcast
What Do I Need To Know To Be An Effective Leader?
In this episode, we explore the causes of poor leadership and dig into what it takes to lead with integrity effectively. This is a must-listen conversation for managers.
Also, Coby apologies for the poor quality of his mic.
Our prescription for this episode is to reflect on your current management actions and efforts. Are you falling victim to any of the 3 Deaths of Leadership? Are you using both leadership skills and management skills? Do you have a framework or strategy to handle unfamiliar situations?
Past Episode Referenced:
Season 1 Episode 12: What Is The Most Overlooked Management Skill?
Season 2 Episode 21: What Is The Technical Founder Paradox?
Check out our short explainer video on the difference between leadership skills and management skills.
To talk more about leadership and management skills, reach out to us at info@roman3.ca or through our LinkedIn page at https://www.linkedin.com/company/roman3
Don't forget to sign up for our New Quarterly Newsletter that launched in the fall of 2024!
About Our Hosts!
James is an experienced business coach with a specialization in HR management and talent attraction and retention.
Coby is a skilled educator and has an extensive background in building workforce and organizational capacity.
For a little more on our ideas and concepts, check out our Knowledge Suite or our YouTube Channel, Solutions Explained by Roman 3.
Breaking down everyday workplace issues and diagnosing the hidden sickness, not just the obvious symptom, our hosts, James and Coby.
[COBY]:Did we lose a patient?
[JAMES]:No, that's just my lunch.
[COBY]:Hey, thanks for joining us. I'm Coby, he's James. And let's get started with a question. What do I need to know to be an effective leader?
[JAMES]:Just a small topic today. this is really a, huge topic that we'll try to do justice to in 45 minutes. But there are so many books, program speakers, whatever, out there that are dedicated to helping people to become better leaders. so in my less than humble opinion, the most important things that I think that I want you to understand is the difference between being a good leader and being a good manager. you need to have a framework that you can rely on in order to make consistent and ethical decisions. You need to recognize, or it's okay to recognize that it's okay not to have the answer to every question immediately. And you really need to be able to recognize and avoid some of the common pitfalls that we see, which we will obviously jump into and explain in more detail as we dive into the conversation. But those I think are kind of the big topics, big themes that I think, if we can provide you with that information, it will help you become a better leader.
[COBY]:Yeah. And again, again, we are not leadership coaches. We are not leadership experts. we work with a number of them and we're always in awe by them and their knowledge and their insights, something like that. But because of the work that we do, going in and providing organizational stability and improving scalability and that kind of stuff like that we, leadership, like development and leadership skills and management skills are things that are just interwoven into the work that we do. And we often, like when we step into like supporting leadership teams or taking over organizations temporarily, we end up providing a level of mentorship and kind of like recommended training as the ongoing, as part of that ongoing stability piece. Right. So this is something that we often talk about and its'funny because we have some, we dont bring up a lot in the podcast. We usually talk more about the diagnostics and the structural pieces, but this is something that again, is always a big part of the, every day for us. so I like that we're able to kind of like carve out some time just to focus on this because like I say, this is something that we kind of bring into the work that we do all the time. And so providing some practical tips and supports and advice to Help anyone that wants to just level up their game even a little bit, I think they're going to get a lot out of this episode.
[JAMES]:Well, the heart and soul of what we do is helping organizations to develop really effective, engaging workplace cultures so that they can continue to grow and scale. You can't do that if you don't have good leaders. Leadership is essential to setting the stage. And not just in terms of vision, casting, but in how you present yourself, how you engage with your teams, how you as a leader, you are a role model in many respects. You people are looking to you for leadership. They are also looking to you for how. What is the proper way to behave or the proper is the wrong term. I think more what is acceptable behavior within this environment. If you have a leader who is very authoritarian and very direct and very kind of short tempered, that will filter through your entire organization. Right. So the way that leaders are supported and developed have a significant impact on your organizational culture which also has a significant impact on your ability to continue to grow and scale, expand and do what your business is there to do.
[COBY]:Yeah. And the thing is, is that why leaders at the top, at the executive level are so important to have the qualities of both a good manager and a good leader, which we'going into in a minute. But why they're so important to the people at the front line at the entry level is because it is just a blatant back that you lead how you are led. And if like you say, if the person at the very top, the CEO, your director, the managing partner, whatever, is secretive and manipulative and you know, p People against each other and micromanagess, that's going to be how their direct reports end. up managing their team is going to filter down the organization. And we have seen firsthand numerous times the impact of that person at the top. How it completely changes the culture when they go from one extreme to the other or even just when they go from an extreme to the middle. Just the idea of someone that maybe is more empathetic or kind of listens more, provides honestly someone that provides psychological safety. It does not take long. Like sometimes it's a matter of months. And that transparency and that willingness to kind of like, you know, listen and speak up tends to ripple through the organization very effectively. And you see a massive cultural shift just by again, who is, who was running the show or who'least at least get layered up because again, you lead how you're led.
[JAMES]:Yeah, you highlight You've said something that I wanna highlight that I didn't state in my intro. But honestly if nothing else, if you take nothing else away, psychological safety. If you want to be a better leader, a more effective leader, a leader who people look up to, who will, who they will follow and who they will respect. Being able to provide people with the psychological safety to share their opinion, speak up, challenge decisions in a respectful manner. It's game changing because it is empowering. It allows people to play to their strengths. It fosters a sense of camaraderie and acceptance. Psychological safety is paramount in leadership. And it's honestly an oversight that I didn't state it in the intro because it is foundational. It is what you should build. If you can build your reputation as a leader on psychological safety, you are many steps ahead.
[COBY]:Yesus it'something that is not as common as it needs to be but is one of those defining principles. And again if younna learn more about psychological safety we have some we done some past episodes on and ah, I'll make sure that those, those two are in the show notes. But you're right if that's the one takeaway that be able to work on providing that to you, to your cohort, to your coworkers, your peers and those that report to you, that's going to go a long way. But one of the things that I think is always really important for us to always stay from the very beginning is that a good leader, a good executive, a good director, whatever it is, they need to have both leadership skills and management skills. And too often people dont realize that those are two completely separate yet complementary skill sets. I we've talked about this in a number of past episodes but I mean just to kind of give quick summary. Leadership skills are often about your humanistic qualities. They're about your personality, your temperament, your patience, your compassion. Again they're about the qualities, the human qualities that kind of you bring to.
[JAMES]:The work and how you approach people.
[COBY]:Yeah, exactly. And often how you communicate and all the kind of things, how you interact with people. Very much so. Management skills are about how you handle tasks and deadlines and delegate and provide expectations and make sure thatult you're having difficult situations with professionally and you're adhering to protocols and standarding procedures and time management, all those kind of things. It's how the work gets done. And what's a shame is when people don't realize that those two things are separate and they kind of Think if I'm either a great person or a great task management then I just need to be one of those things and the rest doesn't matter. But no, it matters so much. And weve ve seen what happens when you have one, not the other. I think everyone listening is seeing what happens when have neither. But we also know the power and like the world that is created when you have someone that is very good at both.
[JAMES]:Yeah, yeah. Management skills. The distinction is really interesting because if you look at the popular arguments or framing of what it means to be an effective leader, we tend to focus on the individual, the individual leader and the qualities that they need to have in order to lead others. And not to undervalue that because it is incredibly important. But if you are able to motivate people, if you are able to communicate effectively, if you are able to manage conflict in multiple amongst a team, if you're able to rally people around a central vision, if you're able to lead with integrity and respect, the is amazing. But if you can combine that with the ability to address, have the hard conversations, address issues before they become problems, be able to effectively manage performance among your team without falling into the trap of being very authoritarian and focusing more on the stick than the carrot. If you can combine effective management principles with being an effective leader, it is incredibly powerful. It's not easy to do, but they are skills that can be taught and they can be learned and they can be practiced and you need to put them into practice in order to master them.
[COBY]:Yeah, because I mean like know I, a lot of people, I think listening have experiences having a really good manager that delegates as clear, direct, is organized, is structured, make sure that stuff gets done. But it's not maybe so again management skills, but it's maybe not compassionate, emotionally intelligent, thoughtful, intentional, consistent.
[JAMES]:Yeah.
[COBY]:And I think that a lot of us have had a manager like that. but what is actually more disheartening, I know for me is when I see somebody who is emotionally intelligent, thoughtful, caring, consistent, you compassionate, but doesn't necessarily have again leadership skills, but doesn't have the management skills to follow through on stuff, to stay organized, to stay on top of their tasks, to delegate effectively, to deal with performance issues and be consistent with their team and make sure stuff gets done and they drown. And when people say I really like and respect my boss, but stuff's not getting done, things are getting dropped, stuff is getting missed and it is affecting all of us. There's almost like A guilt that the employees feel for really respecting and loving this. This person.
[JAMES]:You got a good leader is, is respected. Right. They're somebody who you want to work with because they make you feel valued, because they are engaging. They listen to you. They have the emotional intelligence to be able to regulate their own emotions.
[COBY]:Yeah.
[JAMES]:Holy cow. We've seen what happens when that's not the case. But, yeah, it'and it's these wonderful people, wonderful leaders who are just a hot mess in the workpl place. Right. Stuff gets dropped. They avoid confrontation because they want to be everybody's friend. Right. They end up shooting themselves in the foot.
[COBY]:Yeah. And what's tough is that people end, up not almost like when they respect the person so much, they don't voice the concerns to have the problems change because they don't want to feel like. Because they feel like they're doing something wrong or they're, or they, you know.
[JAMES]:they like them. So they don't want to be mean.
[COBY]:Yeah, exactly. Yeah. They don't want to escalate the situation because they don't want to hurt the other person's feelings or feel like they're betraying that person and their respect for them. It's ide if I respect this person, but I need X, Y and z to do my job is a weird place to be. Because if you hate your boss, you know, then it's a little, little bit easier to kind of knockselfu up a chain and documents st like that. But when you really, like, respect them because they're a great leader, but they're not a good manager, it's a weird, like, duality, like the cognitive dissonnce that happens when you feel that pressure of, I like them, but I need them to be different. I don't know how to address that without hurting their feelings.
[JAMES]:Well, and yes, and what's incredibly frustrating is when an organization invests in leadership development, they tend to invest in the leadership skill piece. Right. And there's nothing wrong with that. Like you said, we have some amazing leadership coaches that we work very closely with. And honestly, if you're looking for, leadership coaching in your organization, drop us a line. We'd be happy to connect you with some of the people that we work with because they are fantastic. But it's also one element to it. Like, my point on this before, I always get distracted is that when an organization invests in leadership development, they even focus on one component. And rarely do we see organizations investing in developing effective managers. Right. Even management, quote, unquote Management training when it exists still tends to focus on the leadership qualities. The management skills and leadership skills are distinct. We need to recognize that we need to treat them as distinct skills and we need to develop both.
[COBY]:Absolutely. Yeah. So I think that, I think we covered that again any. And we also have a short video on our YouTube channel where we talk about the difference between those in a really consumable way that.
[JAMES]:Yeah, maybe drop that in the.
[COBY]:Yeah, sure. but I want to move on a little bit, talk about the role of confidence in being both a good leader and a good manager. So this kind of comes up to us all the time because we kind of say that there's, there really is like three major like, well we call them the three deaths of the modern leader that kind of are like pervasive. When there's a problem with a leader in their ability to lead and manage their team. And where these deaths really do kind of come from is a lack of confidence in their ability to lead into manage. And that can come from all kinds of reasons. Maybe they'promoted for the wrong reason. Maybe they would just or felt like they weren't prepared, maybe they weren't trained or prepared. You know, there's all kinds of stuff. But regardless there is predictable problems that come up when there's a lack of confidence in the in leader. And sometimes we talked about this a little bit too. We talk about the technical founder paradox. When the skill of you as a founder or as a long time manager that's going to help grow an organization to a point that it's gotten large enough that now you're out of the air, you're not using the skills that got you to where the orition is today. And you'renna have to have different skills, usually leadership management skills. And now, and now that you're in this role, you're not prepared for the realities of this role. So you end up falling into one of these three deaths.
[JAMES]:And as a leader your job is no longer to actually do the work of the frontline staff. Right. If we look at why people tend to get promoted, it tends to be because they've shown success in a previous role. So we want to reward them, we promote them, they show success in that role, we promote them, we show success in that role, we promote them. Eventually we promote them into a position where they no longer have the skills that made them so successful early on, which is what you were talking about. The other piece is just long, you know, buming seat for 15 years. So let's promote them which is a, ah, less effective strategy. But one of the things in terms of confidence that is really effective and that I had was fortunate enough to learn early on in my career when I started getting involved in leadership roles is that you don't actually have to have every answer to every question immediately. So it's a perfectly acceptable response to say, you know what, that's a great question. I'mn toa have to get back to you on it. Having the confidence to be able to admit that you don't know everything is a powerful leadership tool. Having the confidence to be able to support those who are now who are responsible for actually doing the work. Your job as a leader is to empower others. And it's a really, it's a different mindset that you, that you really need to shift out of being responsible for doing the work to be being responsible for the people who are doing the work.
[COBY]:No, and that's a really good point. yeah, I think we'll get into that in a little more detail. We can talk about some models and some concepts that can help people manage the difficult situations that they walk into as leaders. But before we get to that, I do want to just touch a little bit more on confidence and maybe even outline the three deaths that I mentioned.
[JAMES]:Oay.
[COBY]:Because these are things that are again like, they're predictable, they're pervasive. And I think we can all looking back on leadership roles that either we've reported to or maybe even that we've had in ourselves, you know, we want.
[JAMES]:To be, I mean we are all guilty of these at different times. Right. Nobody's infallible.
[COBY]:No, exactly.
[JAMES]:Also another important lesson to learn.
[COBY]:Fairar. But yeah, so, so just kind of give a of a quick highlight of the three deaths. So the first of the three deaths is what we call self sabotage. Now self sabotage is what happens when you're prioritizing your short term comfort or your long term success. And what this can actually look like is kind of going back to some of the tenants we talked about with the management skills like if you're not having the hard conversations, if you're not taking the time, make sure that you're properly organized. If you're procrastinating on dealing with things that are difficult or you know, or your, you know, not really keeping an eye on the structures and the systems that are required to effectively perform your role. This is what self sabotage looks like. Right. You're sabotaging your Ability to deliver the long term success in order to kind of gather short term comfort or avoid short term discomfort.
[JAMES]:And this is not an intentional thing. Like this is not something that people sit down and say I'm going to self sabotage myself today. It happens naturally when we are in our comfort zone and when we are hesitant or refused to push ourselves beyond our comfort zone. It happens very frequently in what we talked about in terms of why people get promoted. Right. When somebody is, when somebody is not confident in the skills required to do the job effectively, they tend to revert back on the skills that have made them successful in the past. You have to push yourself out of your comfort zone if you're going to learn something new. And that's where self sabotage really tends to live is fear of being uncomfortable or just prioritizing my own satisfaction, my own happiness, my own contentment over what's actually required to do this job well.
[COBY]:Right. Yeah. So it's one of those things where again like you say it's something that a self. Someone who's self sabotaging themselves.
[JAMES]:Well self sabotaging others isn't possible. So.
[COBY]:Right. So it's self sabotaging is not realized. That's what they're doing. Again it often happens gradually and organically. But it's the idea like stuff gets dropped, stuff gets left, stuffs isn't dealt with and that's when it really, really buildils a built and built and built and built and that's when get people get into trouble. so let's move on to the next one which is self preservation. This is what happens when there's again a lack of confidence in the leader's ability to almost like whether do all aspects of the job or kind of sustain the job with their own merit. So they often will. So this can look like a few different things. They can look like they end up being more authoritarian or being more like blaming other people for any kind of mistake or messtep that, that they take on. It can look like they don't feel confident in their role or clear about what their role is. So maybe they start to stir conflict amongst those that report to them. So they have a position where they have to be the go between amongst these warring factions and giving themselves purpose and giving themselves kind of clarity. or it can look like someone that just says yes to everything and doesn't actually want to say no or have a hard conversation because they just want everyone to like them and they want it to be easy so they don't realize what's happening when they just keep saying yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And they commit their teams to unrealistic timelines or they just, or sometimes it's just a matter of lack of. Yeah, it can be a lack of action, because of those types of things too. So there's lots of ways that we can do to preserve ourselves, but it comes from a, like a confidence in their ability to actually just lead and be bold and do things that need to be done.
[JAMES]:Yeah, some of them are unintentional, like you know, the. Yes, yes, yes, yes. A desire to show that you are agreeable and just like please others too. To please others. That's one aspect the piece that. And I can understand and have far more patience for that than the other side of it, which is have you ever had a manager or a leader throw you under the bus, take credit for your work? Right. When somebody puts as a leader your job. Again, we said before, your job is no longer to do, necessarily do the frontline work. Your responsibility is to those who do the frontline work. You are responsible for their work. Yes. But you are responsible to them as well. And it is the hallmark of, in my opinion, a terrible leader to take advantage of that, to blame others for mistakes even if, or to take credit for further work. and it's part of the whole self preservation piece. And if you find yourself in that trap, I'm going to encourage you to do some self reflection because it will kill your integrity as a leader. It will kill any opportunity you have to build or foster psychological safety, within your team, which as we said at the beginning, if you can get that point right, oh boys, you are well on your way. And that aspect of self sabotage, of throwing others on the bus or taking credit for their work will absolutely destroy your credibility.
[COBY]:Yeah, absoute. So the third of the three deaths is your favorite, James, which is micromanagement.
[JAMES]:Oh yeah, Loving it.
[COBY]:But I mean, lac of management comes from again, a lack of confidence in their ability to lead and manage others, to delegate, to provide guidance, to again have the qualities required to manage performance effectively within a team. Usually, not always, but usually. The reason fork confidence is like what you said it before. They got promoted into a position that the skills that they're confident in are no longer relevant or are not used as often. So they are more confident in their work. So manage, they try to manage the work rather than manage the people responsible for the world.
[JAMES]:Yes, that's a good way of framing it. they're so focused on I know how to do this job because I did this job successfully and I was so successful in it that I was promoted. Right. So why wouldn't I continue to use those skills? But that's not your responsibility anymore. Right. They end up getting in the weeds and it just, it causes so many problems being several years, many years removed from the situation. I can look back on it with a little bit more grace at this point, and recognize when I have experienced this, from leaders that I've worked with, it really has been really well intentioned. People who were successful in the past and who did want me to be successful in my role as well, but didn't provide me with the freedom to do the job the way that I needed it to be done and focused on managing every aspect of what I did when I did it, how I did it. Micromanagement is just, it's a killer of productivity, it's a killer of morale, it's a killer of credibility.
[COBY]:Yeah. And you're right 100%. And the reason why, why we are doing micromanagement and self sabotage and self preservation really does stem back to a lack of confidence. So the question becomes how do I have confidence to avoid those three things? Right. So we kind of say confidence comes in two different situations. It comes from you need confidence in familiar situations and confidence in unfamiliar situations. Familiar situations. That's easy to have confidence in. I've done this before, I know what works, I can do it again. And usually that's not where we see these three deaths existing. No, where we typically see these three deaths existing is when were requiring to have confidence in unfamiliar situations and we dont know how to handle them. So we dont handle them well. So one of the things that we often devise people is have a bit of a structure or a plan or a framework or some concepts or tools or reminders to give you that structure you need in unfamiliar situation so you can handle them with confidence. And that brings us to our concept we talked about in a few different podcasts. But our concept of integrity leadership. Yah, integrity leadership is really just that. it's that it's a framework, it's a concept, it's a structure. It's a bit of like a tools and reminders and systems and processes to help you handle unfamiliar situations.
[JAMES]:Yeah, it's not a leadership style like you can do. You can jump on Google and find 47 different varieties of leadership styles and a lot of them are fantastic. This is, I mean this kind of speaks to our natural tendencies of, you know, we build frameworks, we build tools, we build systems. So when we're in an unfamiliar situation, having something that we have, we may not be confident in the unfamiliar situation, but we're confident in the system that we've built to be able to filter decisions through. Right. So having a framework that you can use as a decision making guide. So that at the very. And it's not goingn, it's not to say that you'll never make mistakes by using a system or a framework, but it's being able to justify, your decisions, it's being consistent in how you make decisions. Because man, psychological safety, yes, number one. Absolutely. But consistency, that's a close second ablute. Just having, if you can't have confidence in the situation, knowing that you can have confidence in the framework, can make all the difference in the world when you are facing unfamiliar situations.
[COBY]:Yeah. Because part of it is. And again, like anyone that's been leadership role has been in a situation where they go, well, crap, how the hell am I going to handle this? And that's often when we're like, well, I could micromanage, I could procrastinate and sabotage or I could throw some else under the bus. Those things be my only three options. Well, no, they're not. You can have a bit of a, again, a system or a framework or a guide to kind of help you. Okay. I know I've got, I'm sure there's a way that I can handle this built on this framework. So the framework is, we give you a very high level and we'll talk about some examples of what they can look like. But the framework itself has five domains. So the first domain is reliable respect. That's a concept of regardless of how someone is coming at you, of the situation that you're in, you are always reliably respectful and you're consistent in your approach that people always know that you know when they, when they talk, when they speak with you, that you're coming from a place of compassion and respect and you try and manage your temper and your emotions. So high emotional intelligence is to make this one work. But the idea of you just know, regardless of how they're coming at you, you're going to handle it.
[JAMES]:In this one, you can't control other people's reactions, responses or emotions. You can only control yourself. And that's where reliable respect. And if you are doing this consistently over time, it does actually mitigate a lot of problems because Even if people are coming in hot, if you are calm and you are respectful, it diffuses situations. It's not going to fix everything, but it's really hard to remain angry at somebody who's just calm and pleasant and respectful.
[COBY]:Right, exactly. And you just know that. Okay, should I, escalate, Should I react you like. No, I'm just going to remind myself, reliable respect, stay calm, stay respectful and work through it that way. And again, very helpful, especially in stressful crisis situations. Very, very helpful. The next one is moral Kurdish. And this is a really powerful one. It's the idea of having the courage to do what's right, not necessarily do what's easy.
[JAMES]:This is kind of the opposite of self sabotage really. Yeahsolute. It's. This is. Yeah. I'm sure we can all think of examples of situations where either we've.
[COBY]:Where.
[JAMES]:We'Ve taken the easy road even when we've known it's not been the best one. I mean again, we all fall into these, traps, but it's if we can keep in front of mind and knowing that like as a leader, if people know that you will do what's right and not necessarily just what's easy, it builds a tremendous amount of goodwill and it gives you a lot of, leeway in your decision making. If you are again, consistent in doing these things, then people will start to give you the benefit of the doubt.
[COBY]:Right. And one of the things that I often say with the teams that I work with is I'll use the same expression over and over and over again as I say, well, which of these decisions, which are these options that we have to choose, are we most comfortable defending in front of a microphone in the court of public opinion?
[JAMES]:Yeah.
[COBY]:So like having that idea, that expression in your head when you're looking at a tough situation gives a sense of clarity where there are a lot of options on the table. Do the right thing, do the wrong thing, do the easy thing, do the fast thing. But I mean having a concept like that, what am I comfortable defending? Even the way that you kind of write emails can be want I'm going to write an email that it could be I'BE confident if it was read out loud in a courtroom. Just those types of little reminders can be part of moral courage to know that you should be doing what is right, you should be doing what is clear, you should, doing what you can defend. And there's a sense of comfort in that of, okay, regardless of how weird the situation is, I'm going To do what's morally right, not what's expediently easy, is something that gives you again, a lot more clear focus on what you can do or what you should do in a situation that you may be unfamiliar with.
[JAMES]:Yeah. And it really is a way of showing and acting with integrity. Right. We call this framework integrity leadership. And while all of these things have a direct, correlation or a direct, impact on integrity, I think moral courage is probably the one that is most closely tied to what we think of when we think of a leader who leads with integrity.
[COBY]:Absolutely. So the third one is honest acknowledgement. Now this is kind of going back to the idea of being kind of open and transparent and honest and acknowledging stuff that you do know, stuff that you don't know, acknowledging the efforts of others. So one of the things that you said earlier on, James, that you don't need to have the answer to every question that the phrase, Let me get back to you on that. It can be a very powerful statement to use as a leader. That's part of honest acknowledgement. acknowledging that you don't have to be the smartest person in the room, that you don't have to constantly have every answer to every question on the tip of your tongue that you just might need a minute or you like acknowledging the reality of the situation and being clear about that is again very powerful. But also just the fact that not taking credit for other people's work for, you know, not trying to spin the situation so you look good. It's acknowledging kind of the cold, hard reality of it and, you know, not rounding up when you don't need to. Keeping as clear and as on the path of what is factual as you can is part of it, is that, it actually makes things really easy. You don't have to worry about trying to remember what story you told. This person, that person, this person, that person, it's, you just told the truth and you're acknowledging the situations that you're in. Acknowledging what you do know and what you don't know.
[JAMES]:Yeah. And this is, I mean we talk about a lot of aspects of this, through the podcast and through different things. Like when we talk about, recognition, you know, when we talk about it being timely, authentic and appreciable, honest acknowledgement, if you can honestly acknowledge the efforts and the successes of others in a timely, appreciable and authentic way, that's how you show recognition and build, rapport with people. Like honest acknowledgement is such a great system. For how we engage with others. It is about us, as individuals, as leaders, and how we act. But it has a big influence on our relationships and how we build professional relationships.
[COBY]:Yeah. The other thing too is that it's also part ofest acknowledgement is how we manage expectations. Clear, transparent communications let people know what's expected of them, not expecting them to read our minds. It'it's about making sure that we're clear and how we set and manage expectations of others so they kind of know what, what we are looking for. And we're acknowledging all of, all of our wants and all of our needs as leaders. For them, it's out there on the table and transparent.
[JAMES]:Yeah. And also honestly acknowledging our own mistakes because we kind of. One of the, I will talk about it again. But one of the things that you really need to know as a leader is that nobody is infallible. We all make mistakes. And that's the reality of being human. Right. If we can acknowledge when we as a leader made a mistake, it gives permission to others to on to open up and admit when they've made mistakes. It's a big component of building psychological safety. And leaders set the tone. They set the example for how, others are supposed to behave or whatable acceptable behavior looks like. And if you can set that tone in an honest acknowledgement of your own mistakes, and it will make a big impact on your team in terms of letting them know that mistakes aren't obviously sought after. We don't want to make mistakes, but it's going to happen. So let's figure out how can we not make the same mistake twice? How can we move past this in a productive manner?
[COBY]:Right. Ablutely. So the fourth one is trustworthy influence. And this is largely about showing regard and respect for the authority, the influence, the power that you've been given in your leadership role and using in a way that others can trust you, the others can understand that others believe that you get where they're coming from, that you're building a sense of rapport and, almost like consistency in how you deal with people so that youre not misusing the authority that youve been provided. So again, we say this is often. This is about how you wield that authority, how you wield that position that youre in and what you do with it. And you want to be trying to. Whatever decision that you make is about building bridges and building trust and building connections and not in a role for the power, for the authority. You're using it as A tool for accomplishment, for connection, for collaboration. And that's really kind of what the tendons of, trustworthy influence is.
[JAMES]:Yeah, it really comes down to there's a popular leadership, style around servant leadership, recognizing that leadership, in essence is a role that serves others right. As a leader, your responsibility, we've said it several times, your responsibility is no longer to do the work itself. It's to support those, serve those who are doing the work right. It is a mindset shift for many people, but it's a powerful one. And if you, if people recognize that you wield influence, reliably with, in a way that is consistent and, you know, it just, again, these are all really important elements to building your leadership capabilities.
[COBY]:Yeah. And like, again, going back to what we talk before aboutcro management is that with trustworthy influence, you're not in the weeds, you're the snow plow. You're the one removing barriers. And you're using your power and your authority to clear the way for those doing the work, to do the work better, faster, with less headaches. And that's really what you know, and that's what an effective use of influence actually is.
[JAMES]:Yeah.
[COBY]:All right, so the last one is empowering others. And this is really kind of going back to that idea again of your job. Your success in your leadership role is about the success of those who report to you the way that they deliver on the outcomes with they are meeting their expectations. That is how you are being measured for success, how well youre keeping people, how well the performing they are, how conflicts are managed, the culture of the environment that youve kind of crafted or been the architect of. That is what success really looks like for you. And that should be your focus, is making that as empowering and effective as possible.
[JAMES]:And on the empowering others piece, one thing that I think is really important in this is as you become more comfortable with a, framework like this, feel free to like, use this framework if it works, for you, or modify it for your own. But keep in mind the, the, those five key components that we talked about with empowering others. As a leader, you also have a responsibility to develop the next leader. Right. This is a way to do that. It is your responsibility to make sure that people have what they need to be successful, to empower them to make decisions, using their professional judgment to empower them to grow within your company, to empower them to make sure that they can do what they need to do in a way that maintains the integrity of the organization. Your job is to support other people. You need to empower them to do their job and do it effectively.
[COBY]:Absolutely. Because ultimately that's how orations can grow and scale is by having employees that are empowered to deliver on the performance that organizationian needs and theyre led by someone that is able to give them that ability to grow and to scale and to excel. And thats how we get there. So again, those five domains of integrity leadership can be really powerful. And what do I do in this situation? Well remind myself that theres an answer within those five. It gives me something to build confidence in so I know that I can handle unfamiliar situation. And the more I do it, the better it becomes. The more they become familiar situation, the more natural confidence I develop. All right, so I think I'll move into a bit of a summary. Hse you want to add?
[JAMES]:No, I was thinking about kind of you know, some of the quick tips or pieces, but I think we hit on some of those kind of through the explanation things like not having to have every answer to every question. Right. recognizing that nobody is infallible and that you're not expected to be infallible either and providing that expectation to others. These are really, I mean re, they're powerful statements, but they're also simple statements that if you can grab on to, can make a big difference.
[COBY]:Ye, absolutely. Okay, so the question was what do I need to know to be an effective leader? Well, we said largely you're going to want to be able to one, build psychological safety within the work that you do. That's just something that is kind of a fundamental tendant to effective leadership. But also you're going to want know the difference between leadership skills and management skills. Leadership skills are about who you are as a person. Management skills are about how you delegate and are responsible for tasks and outcome. Marrying the two with effective and strong competency is what makes a good leader executive, manager. So you want to understand that where a lot of the problems come from is about confidence and whether or not we have confidence in our ability to lead in familiar situations and unfamiliar situations. When we dont have the confidence, we fall into traps like self sabotage, self preservation and micromanagement. But to avoid those situations by being able to navigate unfamiliar situations, having a framework like integrity leadership can be a very helpful way to navigate that. When we are reliably respectful to people, we know how people know what is coming from us every time so they can come to us with more confidence. When we have moral courage, we know how to handle difficult situations and not sacrifice what's right for what's see, when we use audest acknowledgement, we are able to express ourselves in a way that people believe and trust and can build a connection with. And we use trustworthy influence. We're able to use the power that we've been provided in a way that will help others and will help again build success in our work as well as theirs. And we empower others, we give them the tools that they need to deliver and we move into a way that they can be independent and used professional judgment and autonomy which will help theientization grow and scale. These are all the things that will help us become more effective, in the way that we lead. And these are really valuable tips and tools anyone can use, whether you're a leadership role today or you're building towards one in the future. Y All right, so that about is it for us. For a full archive of the podcast and access the video version hosted on our YouTube channel, visit Roman3.ca/podcast. Thanks for joining us.
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