.png)
Diagnosing The Workplace: Not Just An HR Podcast
Diagnosing The Workplace: Not Just An HR Podcast
How Can I Advance My Career By "Managing Up"?
In this episode, we explore the concept of Managing Up, which is how to adjust your approach when working with your boss or a difficult boss to improve your professional relationship and help them get the most out of you.
Our prescription for this episode is to be consistent, firm, patient, and a little confident to incorporate some practical skills, like Managing Expectations, using Assertive Communication, and following up in writing to ensure stronger communication habits to improve how you work with your boss.
Past Episode Referenced:
S1 E12: What Is The Most Overlooked Management Skill?
S3 E11: What Is Some Practical Psychology For The Workplace?
Statistics referenced:
82% of leaders consider themselves ‘accidental’ managers, which means they have had no formal leadership or management training.
- Chartered Management Institute (CMI). Bad managers and toxic work culture causing one in three staff to walk (2023)
You can reach out to us to talk more about diagnostic tools and resources, just reach out to us at info@roman3.ca or through our LinkedIn page at https://www.linkedin.com/company/roman3
Don't forget to sign up for our New Quarterly Newsletter that launched this fall!
About Our Hosts!
James is an experienced business coach with a specialization in HR management and talent attraction and retention.
Coby is a skilled educator and has an extensive background in building workforce and organizational capacity.
For a little more on our ideas and concepts, check out our Knowledge Suite or our YouTube Channel, Solutions Explained by Roman 3.
Breaking down everyday workplace issues and diagnosing the hidden sickness, not just the obvious symptom. Our hosts, James and Coby.
[COBY]:Did we lose a patient?
[JAMES]:No, that's just my lunch.
[COBY]:Hey, thanks for joining us. I'm Coby. He's James. And let's get started with a question. How can I advance my career by managing up?
[JAMES]:So before I jump into answering the question, I just want to remind our listeners that you can email or text us directly from the Show Notes with your thoughts or questions. And we're used to getting, pretty regular comments and feedback from people, but for some unknown reason, it's been very quiet recently. Coby, there's nothing of note happening in the economy, in the workforce, politics, or the geopolitical space that might be distracting people from the incredibly important task of communicating with us.
[COBY]:Nothing comes to mind. Everything's been pretty calm and unchaotic.
[JAMES]:I think 2025 is just off to such a smooth start. It is beautiful. Loving it. Loving every minute.
[COBY]:I'm dripping in sarcasm here.
[JAMES]:Yeah. Anyways, that's not the purpose of this episode. That's just James being way too James. I should also say that, you can sign up for our newsletter, quarterly newsletter from the Show Notes as well. Anyways, all that say, we'd love to hear from you.
[COBY]:Right.
[JAMES]:In terms of the question itself, managing up. Something that we actually, we get asked about quite frequently. usually it's in the context of how do I deal with a boss who, you know, they might be inconsistent, they might be ane experienced, or they might just be generally kind of awful. And we are absolutely going to touch on those aspects because managing up can be a really effective way of providing some consistency in environments like that. But I think that the bulk of the conversation really needs to look at the general principles of managing up. What it is, what it's not, when and how to use it effectively. Because it is not always, going to work for you in every situation. So the first thing that I want to do is clear up some of the misconceptions that we've heard from people, when we get asked about managing up. So right off the bat, managing up is not about supervising or overseeing your boss. It's not about going above your boss or behind their back to have your voice heard. It's not evaluating or judging your boss's management style. And it's not about making your boss into a better manager or leader. Managing up is about you, and it's about what you can do to Provide and create clear expectations and consistencies in an environment that doesn't really provide for that.
[COBY]:Yeah, and I mean like, it's funny because we often hear the question about how do I like deal with difficult bosses or how do I deal with the consistent bosses? A lot when we give talks like, like when we give webinars or like, I kind of give keynotes every now and again, stuff like that too. There'usually a question I can't even think of. The last time we didn't have some kind of question about dealing with the difficult boss or being able to kind of manage up their supervisor or that move their career forward or whatever. Yeah, and that's a whole idea. Like so most, a lot of people are familiar with term managing up, but if you're not, hopefully you'll be very, very clear what it means by the end of this conversation. But it really is about the idea of kind of like adjusting your approach with your supervisor, with your boss, with your manager to kind of develop a more productive working rapport with them and about kind making sure that they're aware of your work communication style, your preferences, and largely it's about helping them get the best out of you. Is probably the simplest definition I guess we'll use for what managing up means because it's one of those things where it's about you needing to kind of adjust, pivot, rethink how you can approach this relationship with your supervisor to understand kind of like how can you find ways within kind of the, like know the kind of the restraints they're putting on the workplace. How can you adapt and realign to form a more productive working relationship, but also improving how clear and transparent you are in your communication styles and kind of like your ability to kind of put forward what you need to be effective. and it's something that it's really about a few skills and a new frame of mind is really kind of what managing up boils down to.
[JAMES]:Yeah. And I'm not surprised that it's such a top of mind concept for a lot of people because I mean if we look at how infrequently managers are actually provided any sort of support or training to build management skills. Yeah, it's unsurprising that there's a large proportion of people in management positions who have never been trained, never provided any type of support. So they, they're relying on usually the methods that they have been people. Managers often lead the way that they've been led or managed. And it's a cycle of bad behaviors being reinforced, by more bad behaviors.
[COBY]:Right. Well, and that's just it. Like, I mean, so, like, we kind of just talked about kind of what it is. And hopefully that our definition of what it is and kind of what it's not makes it clear that you understand where we're going in this conversation. But you re right, kind of moves us into the next, I guess, piece, of this conversation really is. Why does learning how to do this matter? How can this help you? Or what impact, you know, or why is. Is needed, I guess is another way to put it right. And that you really hit the nail on the head. It is the fact that most of the time our managers or supervisors or bosses are leaders. Are, really using flawed or unstrategic.
[JAMES]:They're doing the best they can with the tools they've been given. They just haven't been given many tools.
[COBY]:And that's just it because most are really not properly trained in how to lead to manage others. And one of the things that we often kind of say, well, you know, we are like, well, why is that? You know, like some people, it's hard to believe, really. Like, you know, these, like, you know, like, managers and bosses given a lot of authority and big teams aren't trained for it. and we're like, no, they're not. But you kind of have to understand why most people get promoted. And most people get promoted because they for really one of two main reasons. One is because of their technical skills, their expertise as employees. They showed great knowledge and promise, you know, in the job duties that they were hired that they did as an employee. So they're like, wow, if they're good as an employee, they must be great as a manager. That there's a flaw, number one.
[JAMES]:Well, it's a reward for good work as an employee to get bumped up, right. To then lead a team eventually. What I mean, it's the whole Peter principle, right? Eventually if you do really good work for a while, eventually you're going to be promoted into a position where you are unqualified and ineffective.
[COBY]:Yes, absolutely. So there's the technical skills. Great employees become bad, can become ineffective leaders. Because the Peter principle is excellent. So that's one of the reasons why people get promoted. The other one tends to just be the. How long they've been with the organization. In a lot of places, seniority, rules and promotions are often about you rewarding tenure rather than rewarding competency or rewarding, you know, aptitude for the job. Right. So those are the main reasons. 80, 80%, 90% of your, the bosses you've had in your life right now. You listening? That's how they got their jobah.
[JAMES]:And let's be clear. Internal succession planning. Upward mobility within an organization is a net positive. It is a good thing to be rewarding employees for excellent, performance and providing a trajectory within your organization. It boosts retention, it increases morale. Like there's a lot of really positive benefits to it. You just also need to provide people with training into how do I do these new responsibilities that I have?
[COBY]:Right. Yeah. Well, because I mean if think about it, it's only really management positions that those two kind of reasons for getting the job come from. I mean you don't see that a lot with highly technical jobs. Like you don't see like the person in the mailroom, was great in the mailom. So we're going to put them as an engineer regardless the fact they have no engineer training or skills because. Right. Or the person. We'going to make you our lead accountant even though you've got no financial background because of how long you'been in the organization. Right. It's only really the.
[JAMES]:Well and the issue is that managerial problems don't come from a lack of technical understanding. They come from a lack of management skills.
[COBY]:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And the thing that like what we want. I also want to be very clear that we're not trying to like defame or demean, you know, your manager or you, if you are a manager. What we're trying to say is that this is how managers are ill prepared.
[JAMES]:Yeah.
[COBY]:And many of them feel it. They feel ill equipped, ill prepared, unsupported to do their job effectively. And that's when, and it's almost like they, that that feeling of the anxiety of being unsupported and being ill equipped compounds any type of managerial gap in knowledge. But they feel them, they have to overcompensate. They feel they have to like, like, over, like over flex their power to not show weakness or to hide the fact that they don't feel like equipped. Like it's, it also has a lot.
[JAMES]:To do with the organizational environment. Right. What type of culture do you have within your workplace if there's no psychological safety, and people don't feel that they actually can state that they, that they're not well equipped for their role M. It's going. They're going to find ways to mask it. So I do want to make sure that we are actually focusing on what the person listening can do because managing up, ah, it really. You can't control other people's behaviors. You can only really control what you do. so I think the bulk of our conversation really needs to focus on what can you do listening to this to build the skills on how to manage up and how do you change your perspective, your behaviors, your skills in this area. Now it is really important to actually understand why this is important because I mean managers don't really receive much if any training.
[COBY]:Yeah, absolutely. I mean so we've, so we have a statistic that was fin. I just found recently that we've been using in some of our training talking about the fact that 82% of leaders consider themselves accidental managers because they've either been promoted kind of or kind of like almost like unofficially or kind of given more work or they've just been put into a position and receive no training. So they kind of fell into the job by accident and just kind of expected to figure it out. 82%.
[JAMES]:That's crazy.
[COBY]:It's wild.
[JAMES]:Yeah. And it's funny because so for us it's very clear, being involved in this space, talking, I mean this is what we live and breathe every day. So it's very clear in our minds that management skills are a distinct and different set of skills that can be taught. And there's a difference between technical skills required to do a job, the soft skills required to work with other people in a productive, in a productive manner. Leadership skills and management skills are also two distinct aspects that really we do tend to put a little bit more focus on leadership capabilities. especially at higher level C suite director positions we tend to, you know, there's leadership coaching that's targeting that, there's leadership development training that's targeting that. But we neglect the huge portion of our workforce that is middle and senior managers.
[COBY]:Yeah, absoutely.
[JAMES]:And the fact that 80, yeah, the 82% stat. The first time you told me that I'm like that's high. That can't be right.
[COBY]:Then we looked at like kind of our we kind of just reflected a little bit on our current clients and some past clients and we're like.
[JAMES]:That might be low.
[COBY]:But I mean it's just the case. And the thing is that again I do think that the context for you listening of why is it you feel like you have to manage up. Why is it you feel like it's your responsibility to adapt and to adjust and to like reframe your working relationship with your boss? And your supervisor. And why is it you're not experiencing the recognition and the effective communication, the consistency that you need to do your job well? It's important to realize they're not receiving their recognition, communication and consistency to do their job well either. And they're leading you. The way they're being led is usually kind of like you said, going back to kind of what you said earlier, James. So the benefit of managing up is that it's about trying for you to have some skills, some abilities, some consistency that you can create for yourself to insulate yourself, your productivity, your abilities from the impact of your M manager who may be inconsistent, who may be ineffective, who may be not being able to get the best work out of you. So we want you to understand that, you know, why this matters is because we want to help you kind of show your boss how to manage you and realize that if you're consistent, if you're firm, if you're patient with this process, you can make it stick. Now also, I want to put a little bit of a caveat out there that to do what we're suggesting, what we're about to get into, there's some things you kind of have to have already. You have to have some confidence in your either professional standing, in kind of yourself, in kind of just the way that you work. You need to have a little bit of, again, like some patience because stuff is going to take time and you have to be kind of willing to kind of go against the grain for a little while and deal with the uncomfortable adjustment phase. Because if you're consistent enough and you're patient enough, things will start to shift your way. But it may not happen quickly and may not. And you may deal with some awkward exchanges while you're going through this learning curve and while you're figuring out the best way for you to do it. And a lot the people around you are adjusting to it. So cars on the table, it's not an easy thing that anyone can just jump into. You're gonna have to kind of bring a little bit of again, some confidence to your efforts. So just be warned, there are some.
[JAMES]:environmental considerations as well in terms of the workplace that you are currently finding yourself in. And I think it's important to restate and look at that 82% stat because the vast majority of managers are well intentioned, they want to do well, they are trying their best and like their authentic best. but they may not be equipped in the way that we would like them to be equipped. There are unfortunately Some people in every profession, every demographic who are just plain toxic. If you find yourself in a situation where you have just a toxic manager, this isn't going to work for you because they're not going to be receptive be or it's going to be far, far less effective. you may get some tangential benefits from it but by and large you need to have at the very least, ah, a manager who isn't crazy.
[COBY]:Yeah, you're right, you're right. And I do think though that like that is a good point that you know, like in an absolutely toxic environment where there is just you no hope of there being any type of, you know, cure other than cutting out the rot, you know, this will have very little if, if any effect with it because of just how bad the environment is. But I do think it's important to.
[JAMES]:Say that I do believe that that's the vast minority of situations and that's.
[COBY]:The thing that I think that you listening have to think about too is that the odds are you may feel that this is the case for your workplace. If you feel like this is something you need to do, you may feel like well I'm just going talk to environment, can't do anything about it. Again, vast, vast, vast minority is that the 82% tells us that the majority is that the truth is this. The boss. You have struggles to be the boss you deserve and in fact they struggle to be the boss that you want them to be and because struggle to.
[JAMES]:Be the boss that they want to.
[COBY]:Be exactly because of the conditions that they were promoted in and that they work in and then how they're being managed by their boss. So this is actually so, so what we're trying to say is that what we're going to tell you requires some confidence, requires some consistanc, requires some patients. But in the vast majority of workplaces this stuff will, will help. This stuff will improve your ability to advance your career, to improve your working situation, to reestablish a better productive relationship with your boss and your team. This will work in most environments. Just want to get that out there. But you're right, it's good. Kind of say, you know, we can't. It's really hard to manage up or really is really hard to have any type of progression in extremely toxic environment is just the fact that we are goingn. We do have to mention al right, so why don't we just move right into what are some things we can do, how do we do it how do we manage it?
[JAMES]:Yeah. So the first one that I want to talk about is really about managing expectations. And this is if you've been, following along with us for any, period of time, you've heard us talk about managing expectations in, in every aspect of your professional life, being able to set and manage expectations is a skill that is going to benefit you in every role that you have. It's. I think it was last year we did a, you know, what's the most important manager management skill that you can develop? It's setting and managing expectations. Right.
[COBY]:Yes. I'll put the episode number in the show notes be right. That's a very good, you know, thing to fall back to look into if this portion of the conversation really kind of connects with people. Yeah. And. And the thing too is that what's great about managing expectations is that it is not only for difficult and inconsistent bosses. No, it is a skill to use with every single person that you work with. I mean, and again, so we work with, we work with a lot of clients, we work with a lot of partners, we work with a lot of different people, and we use the practices of sitting and managing expectations with everybody, from the best partner that we have who's the most in tune with us, to the ones that have such a different working habits and strategy than we do, that they're more frustrating to work with. But we use it with everybody and it greatly improves, all of our work, all of our communications with everyone, because everyone likes to know what's going on and what's expected. Like, that's just a hard fact if.
[JAMES]:You'Re not used to doing it. And so, that's going to lead us into, okay, great, guys, how do you actually set and manage expectations? So if you're not used to this strategy, it does require a bit of confidence on your part because you need to be the one who is bringing this forward, who is addressing the concerns. So oftentimes from. Let's focus on from a managing up perspective. we usually hear about, a lot of inconsistencies. my manager might tell me this is a priority today, and then the priority changes the next hour, the next day, the next week, whatever. Right. That things are constantly coming at you. They are just purely reacting and more and more is being piled on your plate and you can't. When everything's a priority, nothing's a priority. So you just end up stuck with this mountain of work that everything is vitally important to do.
[COBY]:Right. Yeah. or the other side of it too. Or is that the instructions or the expectations on you or what people expect of you is almost unspoken. It's almost like you're given a vague direction and then you're supposed to figure everything else out for yourself. That's probably just as common.
[JAMES]:Yeah.
[COBY]:And the idea of like, you know, like, you know, mind reading is the most important skill in our workplace. so there's a few different things that you can do. But the one thing that I kind of like to go back to is kind of say, you know, again we can't teach a whole three day course in this 45, 50 minute episode. So I think that if there's one practical use skill example of managing app, around managing expectation. Sorry. I think it's going to be what we call the repeatback method. So this is again not going to solve every management expectation situation but this is a great one for people to use in lots of different environments. So what repeatap method is, I mean it's really what it sounds like when you're given any kind of instruction direction. you know, job is to repeat back to your boss, to your supervisor, to your team what the directions are to your expectation. Not'just parrot what they said, provide context, provide clarity, provide what you think they are telling you to do. And that's, you know, and so that way it's all out in the air, there's no mind reading required. You're just telling them how you understand the whole context of a situation. So if there's a gap in misunderstanding or'or like clarity, it can be shir up before anything happens.
[JAMES]:Yeah. And this is a good one in a lot of ways because one of the concerns that people may have is well, if I just repeat back to them, am I not showing that I don't understand? Am I not showing that, you know, I'm not getting what they're telling me? And that's not really the case. If this becomes part of your regular communication style and this is the key, these, the first time you do these activities they may not work for you. Right, right. It's going to require some consistency over time but what it allows you to do is focus on your understanding. Don't focus on them and what they're doing. Focus on. Okay, I need to make, just for my own understanding, I want to make sure that we're on the same page. So I'm going to do A, B and C because that's what you've directed me to do or the priorities for this week, are changing from, you know, A, B and C last week to X, Y and Z this week. Right. That type of repeat back where you are if expectations are changing or if you're being given, new expectations being placed on you, repeating back your understanding, making it about you that you need to seek clarity.
[COBY]:Yeah.
[JAMES]:Not because you are dumb and don't understand, but because you want to make sure that you're doing the best work possible. And that becomes just a regular part of your communication strategy with your team, with your manager. It can be a very effective way of cutting through some of the noise. And especially in situations where you have a lot of competing priorities being placed on you doing the whole. Okay, great. So we're going to do this now. I just want to make sure that what you told me yesterday, last week, whatever, to do these three things, these are no longer the priority. And I'm going to prioritize this according to our conversation.
[COBY]:Well, and I think you kind of gave a great way to make this not feel like you don't understand what's going on. Is the expression starting off with I want to make sure we're on the same page.
[JAMES]:Yeah.
[COBY]:Because that is a great explanation for why you're failing to do this. So, for example, like, you know, you're being given a new task, you know, and say this is more important than the task that you've been doing before. So he. Okay, it'so cool'the same page. Even though what I'm doing right now is due at the end of the week, you want me to move away from that and set that aside and focus all my efforts on this thing you're giving me right now? Or do you want me to prioritize what you're giving me right now after I've submitted what'to due at the end of the week?
[JAMES]:Yeah, clarification.
[COBY]:Yeah, exactly. That is, is usually very, very well received because you're again, you're repeating back the request with contes.
[JAMES]:Yeah. And you're not becoming defensive, you're not getting angry that the, priorities are changing. You're not pushing it back on them. Of, well, why the hell are you telling me to do this when you told me to do that yesterday? Right. It's a greatn to do it. Just want to make sure that I'm prioritizing the right thing. And if you make it about you, you're not making it about them. Right. Yes. People don't want to feel like they're being attacked.
[COBY]:Right. So hopefully that's a good explanation of the repeatback method and managing expectations. Again, we can go into much more stuff about both of those, but, I do want to move on because there's a few other things we talk about. the next one I want to talk about. The next skill that you can use, that accompanies the manage expectations very, very well is using ass. So of communication. And, there's two examples of aertive communication that I think are going to be very beneficial. Building on what you just said about making it about you, not about them goes back to a standard assertive communication tactic called I statements. Right. So I statements are when you are. Again, often you don't have to use the word I in your statement, but I statements are really about. You're making the focal point of your statement. You are the subject. It's about you. They're coming from first person. Right. And it's a matter of just. So I'm clear about what you're asking me. Again, you're making it about the subject is you. And the reason why I statements are powerful is because you're not assuming anything. You're not. You're not making it about anybody else. You're saying there's a... It's hard to argue with statements that come from your perspective. So just. So, just so I'm clear, the way that I had thought about this was this is. Is a better way to approach it then. Well, what you said yesterday was this. Are you. Are you not clear? Again, because with you. Because I statements are a counter to you statements which are you're pointing the finger at them and you're either assuming you're telling them what they're thinking or you're assuming their thought process or you're putting them on the defensive. But I statements are not necessarily about you being on the defensive. They're speaking from your perspective, which is you can't argue with that. Where they can easily argue with a you statement because you're pointing the finger and you're assuming and then they have a position to argue from.
[JAMES]:Yeah, I mean, it's really what we're talking about is, you know, effective communication strategies. and this is why we said at the beginning that you're gonna have to have some level of confidence in yourself, in your work, in your expertise, because it can be very uncomfortable to switch to these types of statements and make it about you. Because if you're unconfident in your position, then like, it's not about showing weakness. That's not what this is. About it can actually, it's almost counterintuitive, but these can be very empowering ways of communicating because you will gain more clarity about what's expected of you if you focus on your understanding and not focusing on the inconsistencies that your manager is providing you.
[COBY]:Right. Yeah. Because part of it is like, I want to make sure that I understand what you're asking so I can give you my best work. Those are very much I things or because, I mean, there are elements of I statements that are about like, I feel a bit attacked when this happens. You can. Those are kind of, you know, those are an element, of ey statements.
[JAMES]:But that's the way from those in a professional environment.
[COBY]:Well, yeah, you really want to make it about speaking from your perspective, your situation, your contes. And not assuming theirs is really kind of what the I statement piece is. Right. so I think it's just more about realizing that if you can, that the way I like to think about I statements. And you statements are think about if you're a pointer, like you point a finger when you talk to someone, are you pointing at yourself about like, you know, like this is something that I need for me to provide the best work that I can. You're pointing out yourself while you're doing that. Whereas you statements are, if the subject is them, you're pointing the finger at them. And usually that's accusatoryah. So part of it is kind of figuring out, you know, try to avoid making it a confrontation by pointing the finger at them while making you. While making it about yourself and making sure that you, it's clear about. You're just trying to give them the best work that you can from your context. It's really kind of the power of I statements, despite the fact that you don't always use the word I. I.
[JAMES]:think the next one that is really important that follows along the same train of thought is to follow up in writing. So one of the best pieces of advice that I can give anybody who is in a inconsistent work environment that has lots of competing priorities placed on them, especially if those priorities are just expressed to you through conversation. Following up and writing can be an incredibly effective manner for cutting through the noise. so what we often hear is, you know, managers will, you know, as they pass your desk or as they pass you in the hallway, they will provide you with instruction. And it's just off the cuff, it's hey, I need you to go do this. If you have that type of inconsistency following up in writing, unless it's a, I need you to go fill the water cooler. Something relatively minor. That's a stupid example, but whatever. unless if it's something that changes your workflow that is going to take you away from other projects. Following up and writing when you get back to your desk. Hey, just want to make sure that we are clear as you said you wanted me to do this. sounds great. Just want to let you know I have X, Y and Z on my to do list already. but if you want, I'm happy to prioritize this piece. Right. These things are all kind of interconnected. Right's a way of managing expectations. It's a way of having a sort of communication and following up and writing is a way of getting around the manager who doesn't like to have actually put things in writing. Because there are legitimately people who will provide instruction more often through verbal communication. Because it can't be traced.
[COBY]:Right.
[JAMES]:Because then it's a, well, I never told you to do that. Or well no, you just misunderstood what I was saying. You should have, you should have sought clarity before you went ahead. Right. For bad actors it's a way of mitigating some of the challenges that come from that environment. For well intentioned managers who are just really busy and who are on their way and they're giving you instructions While they're doing 40 other things, it's a way of just providing some clarity and consistency. Either way it's going to benefit you.
[COBY]:Absolutely. And that's just said is that documentation is kind of an HDR standard for dealing with problematic areas or discipline issues or anything like that. Just having things in writing is just a great habit in general, but it also is kind of great in a reactive environment and which is from our experience is like Italy's. Half of the companies out there live in reaction mode all the time fall into our reaction is action fallacy. but it's the idea of. Because often it's a matter of like this has came up, this fire came up. you know, I'm gonna ask one of the first few people I see the person that I know can handle that one issue and I'm too behind the ball, too stressed out, two burnt outgh whatever to think about all that that person is doing when I give them a new task. So I'm just going to say it out loud as I run to the next fire. Being able to kind of just listen and then following up and writing saying okay cool, you said this and we had this conversation. I'm again I'm making sure we're on the same page. Yeah, yeah. Or just to clarify and sometimes it could just be a matter of like in the subject line saying you know, clarification required or whatever like that, doing that. And even if they call you up and they were and they they talk to you, sending the email back to them like ah, you know, you know again a lot of people don't like it because they're like well why are you, you know, like why are you following up everything that our conversation in writing saying it that it's for yourself.
[JAMES]:Yeah.
[COBY]:So I have something to refer back to. I want to make sure that I can re hash the conversation or I can re, you know, I've got written confirmation of what's required of me. So that way if I get, I'm.
[JAMES]:Not bothering you every time I have a question. Right?
[COBY]:Yeah. so if I have a little bit of mission drift I can remember where the priorities are. It's written oute in front of me is something that you can just make part of your work style. Right. It's not saying you're, you're unable to do, you know, to work in a fast paced environment. It's not saying that you require everything to be spelled out in my new detail. It's just I like having something to refer back to when I hit a wall, when I have a question I want to be able to make sure that it's clear for me. So even if they don't reply to the emails is something that you are doing it as come like your notes and they're seeing them. So if they do have something that they disagree on or'clarity that's required, you've given them a chance to do it. And again in most situations manageders will actually appreciate having that because then they can refer back to it too.
[JAMES]:They do have to get used to it though. Right. Again, the first few times that you do this it's going to feel very unnatural. you also need to use some of your own professional judgment of when to do this. Like if there is something that your manager is coming to you with and it is an obvious priority, it is a emergency. We need to do this now. Going great. Going back to your desk, typing out an email saying I just want to be clear that this massive priority is actually a priority isn't going to help you. Right. This is when nuance is required or when there is some confusion around priorities. Yeah. Well that's just if you're helpful tool.
[COBY]:Yeah. Like if you clearly know what's, what's expected of you and you have no questions then that you probably need to do this. If you're like have a bit of a nagging question instead of going back to them and talking to them. Following up in writing is just a bit easier because it allows you to have a conversation written note so you can refer back to. That's really kind of when to use it. Right. If you know what to do, maybe you don't need to. If you're not sure and you want to have some clarity that you can refer back to, follow up and writeiting. Right.
[JAMES]:Yeah. I mean ultimately as always, like we are giving you general tips.
[COBY]:Yeah.
[JAMES]:You have to use your professional judgment when to incorporate these into your workflow.
[COBY]:And how quickly you want do. If you love these and you want to start using them, how quickly you want to incorporate them all versus how gradually you want to kind of start adding them your to your habits. Right. Now the last one I want to talk about and is I want to talk a little bit and this is kind of gets into a bit of the psychology realm is I want to talk a little bit about what's called the common enemy effect. Now this is something where a lot of managers who maybe feel a bit more like, you know, like a bit. If they're insecure about their management skills, their leadership skills, their super advvisory skills, they may be a little bit sensitive to some of the stuff that you're trying to do around clarity. Any something like that. Common enemy effect is really about trying to find the fact that trying to align yourself with your manager against an external third party. Because sometimes when managers have kind of a competing situation or, or if there's a problem, there's kind of two mentalities that can make it hard on you as the employee. There's the zero sum mentality where it's about, you know, like if you, if I'm winning, you're losing or if you're winning, I'm losing. Or there's the if it's not me, if I'm not the problem, it must be you, you're the problem mentality. What's great about the common enemy effect is that sometimes the enemy is neither of you. The problem is not you. It's often something external. It's like a third party. Right.
[JAMES]:Now I want to be clear when we were saying external, we're not saying external to your team. We're saying external to your company, you do not create a common enemy with another department M. That is not a productive way to approach this.
[COBY]:It's often not about creating a common enem. It's realizing that there is external force or external situation that is the biggest problem. Not necessarily that you and the people involved. A great example is like externally set deadlines. Like sometimes you have, have, you have a customer, you have a client or you have just like a regulatory body or you have kind of whatever and it's an unrealistic deadline is putting the pressure on you. And so you and your manager may be kind of ah, at loggerheads you'kind of butting heads about kind of the stress that you're under. Sometimes it's about realizing not if it's not about you, it's not about me. It's about this deadline that was unrealistically set that we should be on the same page. We should be aligned against the common enemy, which is that deadline. Or sometimes like you know, again James and I have a history working in nonprofits and working with nonprofits. We work in a lot of nonprofits and sometimes the funders, government departments or whatever like that don't really get the problems that the organizations are trying to solve or that are equipped to solve. Are they being funded to do okay? most of the time. And so sometimes it's about you see where AANDR is talking to an employee about like this, we're not meeting the funder'not happy with it like this. And often the manager is kind of pointing the word down. And that can be a very difficult situation when you're like, but really let's not make this about you. If it's not me, it's you problem. Realize that the funder may actually be kind of the common aim that we should be trying to find a way to work with. But we should be on the same, we should be united against them.
[JAMES]:Yeah, external funding agencies, regulatory bodies are a great common enemy because they create a whole lot of hassles. Some of them are required. Some of them are not customer unrealistic customer expectationses. Another ah, common enemy that you can look at. Right. It's not about a person. Don't make it about a person because that all that does is create animosity.
[COBY]:And I think we should we see here too. I kind of feel like just the language that you're using makes it seem like make up an enemy that you guys can blame. I know you're not saying that, but I think of the of could be interpreted that way. Yeah. What we're saying is reframe the situation and realize, that there's more likely you are in alignment against the unrealations of for customers, against their lack of understanding about what they actually need versus what they want. about regulatory bodies not really getting the realities of the environment that you work in. Funders really being out of touch with the expectations about what impact actually looks like. Those types of pressures that we often end up fighting ourselves against, we end up almost like, you know, like we end up like cannibalizing ourselves and our organizations because of these external. I mean enemies is the psychology language.
[JAMES]:But I mean they already exist. It's about identifying them, not not creating the oute of thin air.
[COBY]:It's the why are we fighting? We should be in alignment because we're both in this situation because of external. Right. That's really more about what that is because sometimes conflicts come from feeling like, you know, you're turning on each other when really if you step back, the common enemy effect is that you should be aligned, you should be building a stronger relationship because you're both in a situation caused by an existing external force. If you just kind of shift your perspective on it. And you know what, this is actually an interesting. There's a deeper psychology to it. So maybe you and I should actually I'm looking for topics for upcoming Psychology in the Workplace like our part three. I really enjoyed this episode. Maybe we'll make a common enemy effect and kind of get into a little bit more detail in one of those. Cause I think that'be a cool conversation.
[JAMES]:But another quick shout out is if there is some psychology you want us to explore, related to the workplace, you can text us, you can email us.
[COBY]:Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I love the Psychology in the Workplace episodes and they actually are quite popular.
[JAMES]:Yeah, you nerd out on that. Pretty good.
[COBY]:Yeah. So again there'stuff that people are curious about or want to know a little more about. I'm always happy to look for other things to talk about but. Yeah, but I do think that going back to so we talked about some four different things that people can do to manage up yah manag expectations. Repeatback method is a great example of that. Assertive communication. again I statements or speaking from your perspective. Yourext is important follow up and writing is just a great habit to everyone should really just try to adopt. I mean it's easier in organizations that have email. But I mean it's not just for email. Even if you're in like retail or if you're in other stuff, if there's log books that you can put information into that managers sign off on. If you have the ability to check.
[JAMES]:Ins, at the beginning of your shift, end of your shift. Right. There's ways of following up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[COBY]:Like finding that way to kind of make most of the directives and most of the kind of like understanding about work and understanding not just exist in conversation. Have it be more concrete somewhere. It's hard to say in all environments, but again, emails, text, workbooks, you know, meetings, anywhere they can. And then the fourth. Go ahead.
[JAMES]:Yeah, well, I just. There's. What we've talked about so far are mostly about how do you protect yourself and manage up. There's also another element to it of relationship building.
[COBY]:I actually think the four that we talked about, the C communication and managing expectations, have all been writing and even the common enemy effect have a relationship component to them as well. Right. Because again, if you're someone that they can actually kind of have a transparent conversation with, if you're someone that they feel like you get them and they get you and you're adapting to kind of the way that they communicate, you're also modeling good communication habits so they can get the best work out of you. And again, and then you're finding that alignment and realizing that it shouldn't be you versus them, that should be both of you together versus kind of external pieces. Those are things that build professional relationships. Right. Because there's a sense of your building consistency. You're building effective, interactions. You're trying to find a way to meet them where they're at, but carefully trying to show them how can they get the best out of you while not attacking them. That's stuff that if they're dealing with a lot of inconsistency or they're not feeling supported, they actually might really appreciate that kind of relationship because other people might just be more aggressive towards them or dismissive or saying one thing and then doing something else. So that consistency that you show them can be a huge relationship builder.
[JAMES]:Well, yeah. And if they know that you are consistently reliable.
[COBY]:Yeah, exactly.
[JAMES]:You show that over time. You're right. That is a huge relationship management piece.
[COBY]:Okay, so this has been a pretty cool conversation, so I think I'll just do a really quick summary. So the question was, how can I advance my career by managing up? Well, to be clear, managing up is not about making your boss a better boss. Or about you know, going around your boss. Managing up is about basically how can you adapt and align your work and your interactions with your boss to create a more productive working relationship. How can you help them get the best out of you? And this is a really important thing to know because most managers, most leaders, most supervisors are not really that properly trained and supported to lead other people. So they're often struggling in their role. Which explains while they're not necessarily giving you the experience that they want to, they're not really able to be the boss that they want to be for you or that you deserve. So quickly though, how can we actually manage up? What skills are we required to do that? Well, largely it's about managing expectations, making sure that we're making it clear about you. The expectations being placed on us, but also the expectations that we have for other people are transparent and they're clear. It's about being more effective, andertive in how we communicate. Speaking from your perspective, your statements can be very effective. it's about following up and writing, making sure that you can actually have written down what is going on and what is happening. So it's clear's transparent. And it's hard to have people change minds or say that you didn't understand if you're actually being able to kind of put information out there that won't be cant be relooked at as something that was just said quickly and you must have misunderstood because of what I said. It'actually written out clearly. And then the last one I think that'really important to know about is what's called the common enemy effect where you can actually build rapport, strengthen relationships by realizing maybe its not you versus them, maybe its you collectively together against a common enemy which might be customer expectations, external timelines, external agencies like funders or regulatory bodies, where the pressure is coming from is often from somewhere, is being passed down to you or passed in the company from external. Realizing that maybe it's not you versus them but it's you together versus a common enemy can actually be a way to strengthen relationships and realize that you might be able to shift the dynamics a little bit. So we really hope that this was a helpful conversation for you listening to realize how can you improve your working relationships with your boss and your team. And hopefully you've got something that you can take away from this conversation. Al right, so that about does it for us. For a full archive of the podcast and access the video version hosted on our YouTube channel, visit Roman3.ca/podcast. Thanks for joining us.
[ANNOUNCER]:For more information on topics like these, don't forget to Visit us at Roman3.ca. Side effects of this podcast may include improved retention, high productivity, increased market share, employees breaking out in spontaneous dance, dry mouth, aversion to the sound of James' voice, desire to find a better podcast…
